Reflections between a dutch and a mexican.
I belong to a community of system rebels that connect every saturday to try to make sense of the world and everything that is going on today.
Being that this project is about tourism, well, it is kind of stopped in its tracks.
Still, I am trying to figure out to still make it happen, but, making sure that even if technology is involved, I manage to transmit exactly what I aim to, and that is, LOVE.
I watched an interview with an aboriginal man from Australia and I read the first chapter of his book: “Sand Talk”. This book is supposed to be a look into the indigenous or aboriginal cosmovision to figure out what of it can help “change the world”.
That has inspired me and excited me at the same time because the conversation is happening, and it is happening exactly as I have always imagined it.
Now, I just have to see myself as able to drive the conversation in Mexico. I know I will get there.
In the mean time, for those that might be interested, I am sharing here a conversation through questions that were inspired from my research, and the answers that a person from Amsterdam gave me upon reflecting on them.
As I was writing the questions chills ran down through my spine.
The words that I received from my friend melted my heart.
Here it goes:
What is the hidden/unspoken/ silenced knowledge that lives in the indigenous lands?
That everything is relational and therefore contextual.
What is the job/function of the wise elders today? Where are they?
I suspect that from an indigenous perspective wisdom is also recognized as a contextual phenomenon. So the higher stages of consciousness come to humans with age, if humans live grounded, connected and communicating lives.
What has been of the elders for the last century? What have they been doing? What have they been wanting to tell us all this time?
“Bro, watch your step.”
“Nature is hurting.”
How does nature speak to the elders? How do animals and plants and rain communicate with the indigenous people?
Not in one specific way I suspect, but through a process of what Verveake might call participatory knowing: a continuous loop of identification and transformation. This way we can internally see deep patterns on all levels of existence.
Why can’t we communicate with nature as the indigenous do?
Coz we’re way in our heads, disconnected even from our bodies let alone each other and our surroundings.
Do we want to communicate with all natures elements or do we just think we want to?
Ask nature that question.
Indigenous have been referred to as animals or lower class humans. Why? What emotion causes that label put on them?
Modernity, and especially dis-integrated modernity, is a collective third-person-perspective developmental stage of objectivity, so 4th, 5th etc. perspectives are not yet online. Third-person corresponds with our Plexus Solaris (3rd Chakra) or individual ego and is inherently domination-orientated. Everything outside that view is viewed as ‘other’, the farther away the more inferior. So in reality it is a projection of modernity’s own inferiority and disconnect. (Like a child that says anything it doesn’t understand yet is ‘stupid’.)
What has displacement of the indigenous involve? What has it meant for them? What has it meant for humanity as a whole? What has it meant for the planet?
It has allowed this era of humanity to go into puberty, like the Prodigal Son’s squandering of his Father’s inheritance, hopefully enabling the prodigal son to return to the father wiser, more powerful and with resolved resentment. So the move humanity needs to make now is not so much getting rid of modernity, but integrating the natural indigenous foundation of life (which in effect would make modernity unrecognizable).
What are the stories that we need to deserve again that are held by the elders? How can we win back their trust?
I think we can win back the trust of our elders and ancestors by starting to share our own stories amongst ourselves.
How can we give back the elders, the indigenous, their humanity?
By doing what we’re doing: communicating amongst ourselves.
What were the morals before colonialism on the indigenous cultures? What were the ethical codes? What were their basic principles? What was their stand on death and life?
Sadly, I don’t know. But what I’ve learned so far, also feeling into it from other spiritual traditions, is that reality is recognized as strictly and solely relational in nature on all levels of existence.
Humans will always be humans. How were indigenous similar to modern humans in the past?
What I understand is that there was massive sacrificing / scapegoating going on in the larger indigenous and pre-modern societies. This is the central significance of Jesus in a Western context, who came and scapegoated himself, so we can live in peace, if we take up our own cross.
What are the struggles that indigenous cultures face today that prevent them from being heard? What are they lacking? How can they improve themselves and raise their voice LOUDER?
I’m not sure if indigenous wisdom would want to speak louder as it would identify that as exactly the problem/disconnect. Perhaps from an indigenous wisdom perspective modernity is just another natural phenomenon, the fruits and the devastation of which is just integrated as anything else. Now, obviously modernity could LISTEN harder. And it will, the hotter it will get in the pot.
I would be very interested to dialogue on this conundrum of talking and listening regarding wisdom.
What are the elements or keys or messages in the indigenous cultures knowledge that speak to us about how to keep the balance within us, with each other and with the planet?
Some possible elements come to mind:
Sharing stories (yarning/dialogos)
A relational/communication mindset/heart set/body set throughout
Acceptance
Responsibility
Contextualization (everything has Time and Place/’warm data’)
How can we bring back indigenous wisdom into our lives without being a threat to modern society? How can we present it as inspiring?
Wait and See.
This might sound aloof, but I mean the opposite. Expanding our own consciousness is the first thing, and more powerful than we think on face value I believe.
It would definitively be interesting to convene around this topic to discuss more principle and practical angles.
Which knowledge or messages from the indigenous cultures can help us in the venture of sense making of the world today?
Yarning (What people who live in their head call ‘Dialogos’)
Why is indigenous culture passed on orally and not in written form? Does this matter?
I love this question. I think one element might be the insight that everything is contextual, that everything has a Time and a Place. Concepts and theories are exactly just that. ‘Naming’ things takes phenomenon out of their context, introducing disconnect and insanity.
Again here, it would be very interesting to discuss how meaning that exists under or over conceptualization can be disseminated/shared/inspired. Your presence Bianca at an initiative on the Rebel Wisdom Circle community that I just saw (aptly called ‘Working Bee’) would be very valuable both ways I think, to get creative energy running around highly game B-ish topics like this. As I understand they want to convene around and experience ‘uncertainty’. This could be a very good exercise to get into the right space out of which vision can be born.
How do indigenous cultures see themselves today? What are the wounds to heal? At what stage are they of healing? Can we join them in their process? How?
This question shows the other side of the ‘acceptance’ coin to me: ‘responsibility’. This in my view is also where Barny’s ‘breaking frame’ comes in: seeing my connectedness with the Whole and act accordingly. For me personally this means that my actions should be geared towards doing everything in my power to halt the destruction of the Amazon region for example. Since I don’t really consume anything other than food and electricity (upper right Integral quadrant), the onus of my action could be politically (lower right Integral quadrant). But as I can’t oversee the cogs of political machinations in game A and I largely seized to play in the arena, I personally translate my responsibility into self-development, fostering meaningful relationships and right livelihood.
How is the indigenous culture portrayed in the world? How much do we know about it? Do we know about it? What is it that we know about it? How do we describe it? What role do indigenous humans play in our lives? Do we see them and feel them as us or we just think we do?
A reaction that came up in me in response to this question is that Yunkaporta rightly asserts that pointing at the excesses of postmodernism (such as cancel culture) is exactly that. We have to grow into the 4th person perspective of postmodernism so we can contextualize perspectives, to then make the leap to 5th person perspective where we start integrating all the underlying levels of perspective, and start seeing Ourselves in the Other. This is the only move we can make to reconnect and claim our beautiful planet and lives. So yea to healthy postmodernism!
Is the indigenous worldview the way to Plan B? What of it can be used and what can’t or shouldn’t?
I think in any future of Earth that includes humans, large chunks of indigenous consciousness (such as relationality and contextuality) will be an essential part of the source code.
Now, that would also include more linear consciousness of modernity in specific contexts and spheres. If only to have iPhones: how cool is it to ask a bunch of trees and rocks if I can please make some phones out of them?
Indigenous knowledge must be protected as it is indeed being “hunted down” or wanted to be silenced. Why is this happening still? What is so dangerous about indigenous knowledge? How can we inspire people to join in protecting it? Can we do it?
Your question made me realize that unintegrated modernity will fight teeth and nail to silence indigenous knowledge as it pokes the finger right in its eye of immense collective modern shadow. This includes anything and everything bad we can imagine. Just to not feel the pain of alienation. This isn’t kids play and hasn’t been for a while.
I think just silently and reverently being conscious of that, each to our own ability, is the most difficult step, but doable and practical. The upside I think is, that to the degree we manage to hold our eyes on our collective shadow and hold space for it in our hearts and minds, we reconnect with beauty, life and relationship ourselves. One step to God, and she takes One Hundred steps toward to us…
Back to deserving: indigenous culture’s knowledge is protected and must be deserved by the person or people that receive it. Who do we have to be to be on the deserving side?
Wow, beautiful. Let me know!
In terms of time. How have indigenous cultures spoken about it? How do they speak of it now? What role does time play in indigenous culture today and how does it relate to modernity and the current circumstances that we live in?
Geez these questions ROCK! This is of course the whole ballgame. Modernity waved its magic wand and made time linear, which is just a tool to dominate our external, material environment. Not realizing that with the same move it made itself disappear and collapse into Flatland consciousness of pure materialism.
I’m sure it’s an acquired taste, but I heard some deep belly laughs from Yunkaporta.
What role does language play in indigenous culture? What impact would modern humanity have if more connected with indigenous languages?
Yes, lovely! Just like your question on symbols, I’m sure through language we could hack our consciousness and speed up our integration/development. Language is indeed the most powerful psychotechnology in town. This is a good point, if only to irritate the anti-postmodernists.
Who are the real Indigenous People? Who among them carry the real Indigenous Knowledge and what aspects of that knowledge are relevant in grappling with the design of sustainable systems today?
Dunno. But the philosophy of Ubuntu (“I am because we are”) in South Africa comes to mind, although I’m not sure how old it is.
Another concept I know is the Cree Native American notion of the psychological selfishness-virus called Wetiko. This could be an example of how language could be used to breath consciousness in our possessed minds.
Is this the end? Or just the the beginning?
What do you think?
Did you enjoy these questions?
Can you answer these to yourself?
Do you think this conversation can be turned into a travel experience?
I do think so.
That though, that is another story and it is to be continued…
